31. Choking Dangers for Kids: A Rural Mum’s Tale

Heidi: Welcome to Beyond Words by Pop Family. I’m Heidi and for this episode I was joined by a very brave rural mum. Sarah Giltrow is a teacher turned stay at home mum of four busy children. She and her husband are raising their kids on a property in Southeast Queensland. I first met Sarah when she was lobbying for the LifeVac device to be distributed amongst rural and remote small schools at the Queensland ICPA conference this year. ICPA stands for Isolated Children’s Parents Association. Her story is harrowing for parents to hear, and whilst it is not my intention to cause alarm, I feel that Sarah’s experience is one that many of us can not only relate to, but learn from. I hope that you enjoy listening to Sarah share her story, and remember that you can download our free Swallowing and First Aid mini guide for your family. Welcome to Beyond Words, Sarah.

Sarah Giltrow: Hi. How are you? Good to be here.

Heidi: It’s so lovely to have you. Can you please tell me a little bit about where you live? Who’s in your family?

Sarah Giltrow: So I live in the Western Downs region. Moonee is sort of our town, and, I’ve lived out here for about 12 years now. I moved from the Sunshine Coast originally, so that’s where I grew up, on a pineapple farm. So a little bit different to what I’m experiencing out here or have experienced out here, but, not a huge change, I guess, in that respect, but I, yeah. So we’re we’re on a cattle property. I’m about 6000 acres. My husband, and his parents and his brother, they all sort of work together on the property. I’ve got four kids, a seven year old, a five year old and two two year old. So I had twins last, which was a real moment for us. I’m also a teacher, so I’ve been a teacher for 12 years. Funnily enough.

Heidi: Fantastic. And such a small world. So I’m now based on the Sunshine Coast, but I grew up around Moonee.

Sarah Giltrow: Yes.

Heidi: And, yes, yes, I grew up around Moonee, and I think, you know my family.

Sarah Giltrow: Yeah. Yes.

Heidi: And, and slow. And I did go to primary school with your brother in law.

Sarah Giltrow: You sure did.

Heidi: I always drove past him a few nice, sweet notes in about grade six.

Sarah Giltrow: Like a lovely little crush. Yeah.

Heidi: Once upon a time, I wasn’t gonna let you get away without saying.

Sarah Giltrow: So funny. I actually was thinking that I probably still have those letters somewhere the other day to share them with me, because I would just love, absolutely love to, you know, to roast him. Absolutely. I’m sure.

Heidi: Thanks so much. I mean, we actually met for the first time. I recognized your last name because I know your brother in law, and I recognize your last name. And I knew where you came from, because we were at the ICPA conference, and you stood up, for the region. When you’re at one Isolated Children’s Parents Association conference. That’s what ICPA stands for. You stand up on behalf of your area, and you put forward a motion, why were you there?

Sarah Giltrow: So I was at the conference, because earlier this year, we actually had a bit of an incident occur. When my little girl, Maddie, the two year old, one of my twins, she had a medical episode in her sleep, and, ended up vomiting and convulsing and and choking, basically on her own vomit while she slept. And very, very, very thankfully, my husband was actually in the bed with her when it happened, and she when he realized that she couldn’t breathe, he immediately grabbed her and basically threw her at me. And I started first-aid, and I did the back pillow, chest thrusts. Checked airway. There was no way in the world that, anything I was doing was going to sort of get out whatever it was that was in her throat. And, my last ditch attempt to try and help her, I threw her on the ground, and I was about to start CPR, and I remember that I actually had a LifeVac, that I had purchased a few years ago out of my own paranoia. And I thought, well, let’s give it a go. And, basically put it out of her mouth and within two plungers, she was breathing again. And, something I forgot to mention, though, is that I already tried to give her mouth to mouth and try to, you know, get past that blockage. And when that first breath didn’t go through and I realized that she was fully obstructed. And that’s when I thought, we’re we’re pretty well done here. If this doesn’t work, and something that people don’t realize is that when a person chokes, they’ve really only got four minutes, particularly if they’re a young child. Oxygen deprivation can occur very quickly. So we leave an hour and a half from any sort of help. An ambulance is never going to get to us in time. And so this device was my was my last ditch attempt, to try and get her breathing again. And when it worked, the amount of relief that I felt was just like, oh, amazing. But she was still unconscious, so we we still had to race into hospital. And eventually we were airlifted out to Toowoomba for further testing, just because of her altered state of consciousness for such a long time. She actually didn’t regain consciousness until we got to town. The ambulance was supposed to meet us, but, typical of being where we live, things people get lost. And the ambulance actually took the wrong road.

Heidi: And that’s a pretty common story, too, because the ambos aren’t from Moonee. The roads are not. They’re signed, but they’re not always, it’s not always easy for them to find their way around. I mean, that’s on my parents a few times, actually. So how long would it usually take for an ambulance to get to your house anyway?

Sarah Giltrow: If we had an ambulance coming to us, lights and sirens, and it took the correct route, it would still take a minute. Or my husband managed to get to town, going the back roads in 15 minutes, and, he was driving like a bat out of hell. I honestly, I’ve seen the doctor. I thought we were going. I thought we were going to hit something for sure. But he was determined, like, laser focused. He was going to get to town and every time we saw a set of headlights coming towards us, I started breathing a sigh of relief and finding out that it was just another pig chase up on the road just made me go, oh, stop the ambulance! And then we finally got a phone call. As we were coming into town to tell us, can we go back and meet them at a different stop? And that’s when I realized they taken the wrong road. We we’d explained to them to come our way and they just whether or not the ambulance is already on that road or not, I don’t know, but they’d taken the wrong road. So either. Either way, Matt ended up, you know, with no lasting permanent issues as a result. So we are very, very grateful to that. And I, I really do feel very strongly that having that LifeVac for us was a godsend. Like, it was one of those things that I actually almost didn’t buy one. I can talk about that a bit later, actually, but I almost didn’t buy one just because of some of the things that I’ve seen on some of those mummy vlogs and things like that. And I, I just kind of had a moment where I thought, I already live too far away from any sort of help. An ambulance is never going to get to us in a massive emergency that is that time sensitive. So I, I bought this device and I kept it on hand. And the reason I did that is because I was heavily pregnant with the twins at the time, and I had a two year old, who, you know, they, as you know, two year olds, they wander, like you try to keep them still. They don’t always sit through their food. And I always had this anxiety like, oh, what if she chokes? You know what if something happens or what if I choke? What if I’m choking and the Heimlich? My four year old and two year old. No one can help me. So. So I bought this device thinking, well, it can’t fit. Yeah, it can’t hurt. Just to have it. And yeah, I, I am very grateful every day that we did buy it. So I just kind of feel that it’s something that people don’t know a lot about. And when I came to the ICPA conference that day, I kept thinking to myself, there are schools with kindy children, you know, little kids, not even Kindi kids, but lots of older kids who also live such a long way away from hospital, such a long way away from health, that if anything were to happen, you can have the best first aid in the world, best first aid knowledge, most up to date first aid knowledge and a lot of people out here will actually go and get their first aid, certificates and things. But if you are having a choking incident and you don’t and you know the first aid does not work, what do you have left when you’re in the middle of nowhere? I was advocating for it to be brought into Queensland rural Queensland schools, but ultimately I would love to see it in all Queensland schools and possibly all schools in Australia. Would be lovely to see the device brought in. So that was my that was my main play. At the RTA, I really wanted people to sort of see that this device does work. And that you can, you know, you can have the best first aid knowledge and sometimes that doesn’t work, and that’s okay. And I’m not saying you shouldn’t have the same knowledge. I think that everyone should. But it’s good to have something on hand just in case.

Heidi: Absolutely. I think that’s really important message as well. This the one of the main reminders is, and one of the most, I guess your story is kind of harrowing, especially for the parents in the room that I don’t know, most people may not have been to a conference like this, but there’s a lot of chatter. It’s quite busy. And the motions? Not not always be sensitive for, you know, and everything. You could you could have cut the air with a knife at that point. And I think I’m still feeling, the emotions of your story. I can’t imagine what it would have been like. And I was thinking of what I would have done in that situation. And I live ten minutes from my closest hospital here at Noosa. And I often think to, you know, even though you’re ten minutes away, this is just 54 minutes trying to get to you. You know, once you’ve got that kid in the car and you’re racing, racing towards help live there. So you’ve still got to get them in hospital even so that to find a nurse willing to help you out of the car and into the hospital. Yeah. You had to find a park. What if you by yourself? What if you can’t do CPR in the car, right. Yeah. So all of those things, I think for every. Not just parents. I mean, I went to that conference with two of my employees who are not parents. They both are looking at me going, how do you know about this device? And I’d never heard about it before. It’s why I was really interested in why I approached you to talk about it. Because if I’ve never heard about it before and I’m a speech pathologist trained in first aid, anybody training first aid or. Obviously your first National? Or. And I imagine is, emergency nurses would be, better off than they your. Because they’re doing it all the time. They’re practicing that. I was thinking, geez, my skills are a bit rusty. I probably should, you know, not rest on my laurels and I should keep up, because if I didn’t know about this, you know, maybe I’m not keeping up well enough. And so other parents should probably know, too. But with speech, you know, being a speech pathologist, I think if it was harrowing for me, for all of the other parents in the room, I feel quite confident with choking and swallowing, situations. And it’s, I guess, a weird thing to say sometimes, but. You come across it. I, I have come across that and I guess I understand the mechanism and I sort of know how it would happen, but, I then. I then very much understand, though, how this can happen because I’m a parent and I’m a human being, and, my work mainly is after someone chokes, they would be referred to a speech pathologist for eye swallow review for us to see if there’s anything, difficult for them, you know, if they need some support with chewing, if they if their tongue is not doing the right thing, or if it’s not pushing the food back well enough, or, we are also our facial functional therapists. If their jaws are literally not big enough to treat the food properly, there are things like that that can impact, chewing and swallowing. But essentially your situation was something that you never could have prevented. When you have a medical episode and there’s and there are children who obviously had seizures, all sorts of things, and children vomit. Yeah. And it’s not actually you’re not actively eating in that case. So.

Sarah Giltrow: No, that was quite a.

Heidi: It really made me want to approach you and ask you to come and share your story, because as a mother, I think it was more eye opening for me as well. So can you just explain what a LifeVac is? Yeah. To anyone listening who doesn’t know what that is.

Sarah Giltrow: Absolutely. I promise you, it comes out a lot easier than this in an emergency. I can tell you right now, there’s stuff strewn all over the floor, like, you know. Just filling it out. So, this is the LifeVac. This is the older version. They’ve actually updated it ever so slightly. Not this part, but the mask is a lot better. It doesn’t. This one is the old one. It had, you know, the old inflate, deflate. So they have a much better mask now. But this is the one that I actually used to save Maddie. And it comes in different sizes, so they have lots of different size masks. They have a little face. I don’t want little ones. I have the travel kit. So this one big, garish, yellow looking bag, it sits on a hook next to my oven. So everyone knows where it is. But basically the idea with the LifeVac is, it causes the suction to be sort of made around the face. So you choose the mask that fits the best, and I will always have the small child mask on mine because I know that it fits my children’s face. So basically what you do is you use the mask, you attach it, put it over the face of the victim, and then you pull back and it creates a suction between that person’s face, mouth, nose, and, it’s continuous suction and it pulls whatever is in your throat, passageways out. And you can basically keep doing it. So I actually did it twice on many two pumps. And after the second pump, I just saw all the stuff come out of her mouth and she it came on to the floor. I put her in the recovery position and it just went all over the floor. So whatever it had been that was in her throat, had sort of come out with the suction. Now, back blows didn’t do that for me. And I a little bit of background on me, I actually did surf lifesaving for a number of years when I was on the Sunshine Coast. I did it from the age of eight into my adult years when I moved out here. I’ve done multiple first aid courses as part of my teacher training and childcare training because I did, before and after school care too, for a little while. I did let my certificate lapse during, when I was had my first daughter. But in saying that, I did not let my first aid training lapse. So what? I was often doing, at that point is just refreshing things online. So things that I felt like I really needed to refresh now, all of that kind of stuff, CPR, that kind of thing. I was watching videos online and making sure that I was up to date, and particularly with choking training, I came up to the weaning stage and I was on to it, so I was doing all the things. So I do feel like I’m someone who’s got a lot of I have a bit of confidence around what I know in terms of first aid and, and all of that. So when they talk about, you know, you shouldn’t use the LifeVac first you should do quality first aid. The choking, which is your back blows, chest thrusts, rescue breaths. Although I do wonder whether or not they’re going to change that. I’m not certain. Because obviously rescue breaths. You have a risk of possibly pushing things down, but that’s that’s part of the the training currently. And I know in some places they do the Heimlich, which is essentially a chest thrust. And then if all else fails, CPR, which is the next step, I use this for, for CPR and, and I will say that I feel very strongly that the, the first aid that I did on my daughter was fairly quality first aid like I, I do. I’m not I do feel confident that what I did was the best I could do, to the point that she, she did have bruises on her back from the chest, from the, yeah, clothes. And, you know, a little bit of bruising after the test for us. And, and I do I don’t know if I could have done anything better. Yeah.

Heidi: So that makes it just, I obviously I understand why you were really wanting other parents to know this device.

Sarah Giltrow: I do, I.

Heidi: And be the first thing you reach for, but definitely gives you that little bit of a chance.

Sarah Giltrow: Yeah. It’s not my own personal feelings that gave me one extra chance that I wouldn’t have had.

Heidi: I, and when I first asked to interview, it was, gosh, it might have been a few months ago, actually, I didn’t know anything about the LifeVac at all. I have had to do my research. My main concern about the LifeVac in my research is the lack of pediatric, like the lack of trials on children. Essentially, your experience is a live pediatric child, trial.

Sarah Giltrow: I guess my main concern.

Heidi: And I’m not an emergency doctor. I. But an anatomically. Yeah, a little person’s airway is a lot smaller and more. Fragile. Fragile than an adult’s. And so we’re doing this on an adult. Then we’re not as worried about actually damaging, like, what’s inside your neck or, what’s inside your. Anyway, have have there been any other cases that you know of? Because I know that you know a lot about this now of the LifeVac, say, fighting children, choking other children. Yeah.

Sarah Giltrow: So here in Australia, according to the LifeVac statistics. So something, something to be aware of with this is that LifeVac gathers the statistics based on how many saved are reported to them. So, they could actually be more children than have been saved by this device. And it’s never been reported. But they have a they have a reporting system by which if you use for LifeVac you get a whole new LifeVac. So when I, when I sort of show you this, this is my old one. This is the one that I basically just used to sort of show people what they do. But I actually have I actually have two new ones with the new mask and everything, but basically, the data comes through from them through people reporting their sites. And this year, not this year, but, in Australia alone, we’ve had 25 children, that have been saved using the LifeVac device. I actually do know a parent. I don’t know if she reported, but, a parent from Dundee. Once I had my little incident with Maddie, actually reached out to me and said that she had, an incident one day with her little boy after he choked on a strawberry, and she had a LifeVac, and she used it on him. And, you know, she lived in town. So whether or not she reported that or not, I don’t know. But I see that there are lots of people I’m hearing about that have been saved. I do know worldwide, actually, as of yesterday, there was 4054 people had been saved yesterday worldwide, and now it’s 4561 as of just before recording this. So it’s when you say, you know, there’s a lack of clinical trials and things like that. There’s also a there’s also a bit of an issue around that wording, because in order for there to be a clinical trial on anything, it has to meet ethical standards. And one of those ethical standards is do no harm. So, you know, don’t harm, don’t harm that person that you’re doing and who’s who’s lining up to be choked. Who’s lining up to have their child. Exactly. And so ethically, you you can’t really clinically test it. You can only go by what people have done. I guess in hospital situations, like they might be able to use it. But hospitals have already got, amazing technology to use. What? Why would they be using something like this when they’ve got a continuous suction device in hospital to remove the blockage? Yeah. So. Absolutely. Really? So great that, you know, this stuff.

Heidi: I actually, contacted Tiny Hearts. They’re just such a well known reliable source for child first aid. I feel like lots of mums follow them on Instagram and they’ve, I wanted to give essentially, like, a well-balanced story. And a few months ago, their stance was different on the LifeVac. And they’ve actually just put out, a new stance on it. As of last week, which is serendipitous. I feel like, they the areas were burning. They just knew we got to talk about this. So what was their stance and why was that?

Sarah Giltrow: So, I actually do have a bit to say about this one, because I almost didn’t buy the LifeVac because of the stance that the Tiny Hearts people had on this. And I love Tiny Hearts, I, I, you know, use a lot of the, Horton, you know, look at a lot of their social media around children’s first aid and, and food preparation and all of that. And I, you know, new mum was like, oh, this is great. And all of my friends raved about it. So I was right into it. And when I was concerned about choking, being that we live out here, I’ve always been a little bit concerned about that. Ever since my my first order was weaning and starting foods. I’d always wanted there’s got to be something like, there’s got to be something, you know, we can’t there’s there’s so many different devices out there that surely there’s something out there that you can use as a first aid thing. And I always thought, whatever it is, it would be too expensive regardless, you know, and and my sister’s an emergency nurse. You know, I’ve got a my brother in law is a maxillofacial surgeon. My other sister is an oral health therapist. Like, I’m surrounded by people from all different walks of the health industry. I’m the only one that didn’t get into it, but that’s fine. But I yeah, I was kind of like, there’s got to be things. And I just said, well, in hospital, they just use a suction tool, you know, you can’t get those at home. And and all of a sudden, like, you start, I guess you start looking things up and then the algorithm puts things out for you. And I started seeing, ads for the LifeVac, and I thought, oh, that’s new. I’ve never seen that before. That’s a bit different. And I started doing my own little bit of research into it. And then one day I saw Tiny Hearts had actually written something about the LifeVac and their stats had been originally that they didn’t think it was a necessary product. It my understanding they’re they they weren’t they weren’t totally positive about it. They were saying, you know, if you’ve got food, first aid, if you can do things properly, you you will, you know, most of the time you’ll get it out and I, I kind of thought, well, maybe it is just a gimmick, but they didn’t say don’t buy it. They certainly weren’t saying that.

Heidi: I also, as a clinician, like, who works with choking, who’s never heard of this device before your story, I would have also said, like, I like, oh, I’m very skeptical of that. Like, it’s a device that someone wants to sell. And the main risk. The main risk, they said. And the main reason that I think any health professional has with that is that we don’t want people not to rely on it without, say, like, exactly.

Sarah Giltrow: And I’m fully on board with that.

Heidi: Yeah, I think the gold standard is to have good first line. Absolutely.

Sarah Giltrow: I’m not I’m certainly not anti for the state and I do not believe that this device should be used. Without. First up without having attempted first aid first because yeah, they’re absolutely right. If, if, if your child is choking on a piece of food that’s very high up in the throat, a couple of good back legs, probably going to get it out. No problems. Yeah. But in saying that, you know, what I actually found with my daughter when she choked is that it wasn’t just one. It wasn’t just a hot item. It was. It was possibly lots of little bits of stuff that was, chewed or not chewed properly in her throat along with sticky mucus or sticky, you know, complement of stuff. And so I wasn’t able to push that out. And so I sort of digressed there a little bit. But going back to the Tiny Hearts, I almost didn’t buy the device thinking that it was just just a gimmick. And I actually after saying, no, I’m not going to buy it, actually. Then I saw a video pop up that was completely different. It was just a story, about a man in America who had saved a little boy from choking on a chicken nugget in a restaurant. And I thought, oh, that’s that’s that device that I was looking at. And I thought, what are they really worth? Like, realistically, what are they actually worth? Like, am I going to spend a heap of money on this and then be like, you know, it’s just going to be an ornament that sits on my wall that never, well, hopefully never gets used. But you know, and when I found out there were only about 120 bucks, I thought I’d spend 120 bucks on a pair of shoes. Priorities already, I thought, and and looking at the evidence that I was seeing and the amount of people that were saved, I kind of feel like, well, let’s give it a let’s just buy it then at least I’ve got a little bit of peace of mind. You know, I’ve got a good first day. I’m sure I’ll be fine. But it’s always there just in case. And actually bought one for myself and my mother in law. And I’m so glad that I did. And actually, in now, Tiny Hearts have actually changed their stance. And I, I think, we can have a look at it here. Oh, there it is. Wonderful. So they are. They’ve had a mother reach out to them who actually did lose a child from the sounds of things. And that mother has obviously felt a certain way about, you know, not having, not having, that extra chance that she might have had if she’d had the LifeVac and she was a bit concerned about the, the feelings or the sentiment that Tiny Hearts had around, anti-trafficking devices. And it, it would it would appear that they’ve actually changed their stance. They still believe that obviously gold standard is good quality for sake, which I’m also for. Absolutely. But they do now say if you do have an anti choking device on hand, you can give that a go very briefly. And I mean briefly. You know before starting quality first.

Heidi: If any parent, is interested in reading this Tiny Hearts article, it’s very well written. It explains why they, I actually asked them, if they wanted to comment, but they, they didn’t. They might be busy and they have no idea who I am. But I pretty much their stance is perfectly written here for us, in this blog. And it says why they were apprehensive about it. What the evidence says it gives a brief review. There’s all these articles down the bottom that shows the peer reviewed studies on and hitchhiking devices, but it says, what they are. Right. They cite over and over again. The scientific all the standard. We’ve said that today not worth taking first day and then. Those steps are not working. And a device is available. They say that they look at. LifeVac versus a hard time at the LifeVac I know that, well, I believe the LifeVac is the one that, we have here in Australia that is, TGA approved.

Sarah Giltrow: So they it is a Class One TGA approved device, which means that anyone can use it without training. They, Yeah, basically, the TGA have some pretty thorough, requirements for things to be TGA approved. Particularly if it’s a Class One product. My understanding, is that they have to, first of all, cause, very little harm will be, very low risk, to injury. So if you are using it, so that’s, that’s my understanding of the TGA approval. There might be other bits and pieces that go with it, but, it just means that anyone can use it. Which is why I feel like it’s very strongly it’s such a good product to have in schools, in households. They’re not terribly expensive. I know they look a bit like, you know, just plastic, just a piece of plastic. But what they are actually is a, it’s, got a valve inside. So it continues to create a suction. Yeah.

Heidi: To continue a slow suction. So you would think, well, it’s not actually, I was worried about the, like, that that the continuous slow suction, I imagine, would put less pressure on.

Sarah Giltrow: Well, it’s actually not a slow suction. So you it when you, when you’re in an emergency and you’re trying to remove an object from someone’s throat, you want it to be you want to be quick. So I was down at that. If I was to let that sit on my on my palm. So it’s my pond’s a little bit too small for this mask, but if I was to let that sit on my palm, it may not lose suction. So the idea is you pull out, pull it. Out so that actually, yes, I, I literally did back blows on my two year old on the weekend. And it was one of those situations that was completely preventable. And that’s why probably I feel a bit responsible to share it. I your case was not preventable. The case on the weekend where, my 20 month old, she’s been very sick. She’s had an ear infection. She’s been completely, just a little moody. What word for a 20? Compliance. Non-compliant. Non-compliant. Yeah. And my my older daughter would just sit there, take her medicine, sit at the table there was. She’s asked anyway, the, the almost two year olds. I cut up a slice of apple. It had a tiny little bit of skin around the outside, and it was mostly, like a long, skinny, like a really nice, safe piece. I knew she could chew it. He threw down. She throw it on the table. She didn’t want it. She and I got she was pointing at the rest of the apple. The whole apple. I went, okay, fine. I’m sitting in the kitchen bench chopping up dinner. My other daughter was like, you can sit at your back and you can stand up at the thing. I’m looking straight at you and you can on that. And it was not going to open the throat pounds lighter you want to call? I want to walk around with the apple and I’m of I just gave up. So I have a rule in my house. No walking around.

Sarah Giltrow: Anything we have.

Heidi: We have the same rule and easier said than done. And I my second rule is if the children are eating, you’re sitting with them. And those are arguably the two most important anti-smoking rules. They’re also really important for like, way heaps of other things, because I’m a pediatric fading speech pathologist. Like, this is my bread and butter. This this is these are the rules in my house. And anyway, I broke them. And then she was standing up on a plane that just looking at me. And I could tell it’s just the wide eyes. There wasn’t any other sign. She just was looking at me. And then she sort of sat up doing this, and I went, oh my gosh, like, what have I done? She was literally three meters away from me. She’d taken a few mouthfuls of because she was sick and congested. She hadn’t been. She had a blocked nose, so she wasn’t swallowing everything. She was just having chewing on the cheeks. And I and I knew this, and I was still just letting it happen. And so it’s sort of, you think I would have learned, but I, I went over and I gave her a few back blows. It came straight out, straight out on the floor in front of us immediately. And then she was just crying because she wanted the apple back. You know what I was like? I’m slightly not, honey. I’m literally talking about this rule one is no walking around and eating, but with and specific children. Like, I know how hard it is with my first daughter. She just won’t walk around and eat because that’s the rule. With my second one, she will try to run along the top of the climb up on the top of the table, run along the top of it, and. They’re they’re they’re, second borns are. Tend to jump. Off all a mouthful of a. So it is even though I’m sort of going off prevention and I really want to talk about prevention in, future episodes as well, because there are things that, I think make you confident, make me confident that we already knew you’ve done lots of first aid. I mean, and as a lifesaver of course, you’ve got to be really on top of that. Me as a, you know, fading, fading professional, I have. I have other things to. But I imagine, like, if you’re a mum and you don’t have, that source of or parent at home and you don’t have those sources to feel confident about what to do in that situation, then, yeah, it’s really. It’s really hard. It’s really. Put on.

Sarah Giltrow: There’s so many great resources out there, just like Tiny Hearts. That’s why I wanted to, mention them in this episode, because they’ve actually got really good. They’ve got online courses. So anyone who is remote, he’s able to log in and do that, like you can buy it. I’m pretty sure you can buy it tomorrow. I actually went and had a look so that I could, do that, but I’m I’m going to do it just done another short episode. Just really just for parents who want a refresher of that. Now, on that note, two, I feel very strongly that, yes, obviously people who are providing the first aid should be paid for their time. But for some people the cost is an issue. And hi, I’m all about, you know, finding a good free first aid course or source in order to sort of learn these things. And one, that we’ve had actually come out here to Mooney that also offers free online courses like Flight, Lamb Flight, Last Flight.

Heidi: And they’re free.

Sarah Giltrow: And they’re free. Yeah. The Minutes Matter online courses, they focus on, refreshing your CPR. Snakebite, obviously traumas, but they do choking as well. So that’s another one. Just just for, you know.

Heidi: Oh, that’s not really important. There are a lot of people who would be like, oh, well, this sounds great, but also the 120 bucks for the LifeVac. If I could do a free first. Right. Exactly. Then, yeah, then that would make that a lot more affordable.

Sarah Giltrow: I would also say very quickly to if you do go out and purchase a lot fact, just make sure that it is from the actual LifeVac site or a registered LifeVac supply, because there’s been a lot of really cheap and nasty ones on the market lately that are not TGA approved, they’re not regulated, they’re not, and potentially not effective either. So, you know, these are about 120 bucks. Like if anyone’s offering them for cheaper then they’re they’re not the right ones. So just something to sort of bear in mind. That’s the.

Heidi: So that’s so important. The other population will I guess. And what I want to remind everyone else of is that if your child is choking or if it’s so funny, I was talking to someone, the other day about the podcast. I was saying I’m interviewing this mum. She’s sharing her story. And this friend of mine said to me, oh, I used to choke on food all the time when I was a kid, and I. When I got that, like, kid, like, don’t you choke on things. And I was like, no. How? You know, I don’t choke on things like, we you probably need to come in for an assessment. Like, that’s not right. Like, do you? She’s like, oh, I just avoid the foods that I. That you choke. On. And I went, no, that is, that is really not typical. And you shouldn’t regularly choke if, if you are for example, in my case, where I’m the parent of a toddler that has absolutely no idea what’s chewing, swallowing, safety is. And I didn’t follow my own rules and let her walk around and eat an apple with its skin on. You know that that’s one thing. But if you’re an adult who’s been eating your whole life, or if you’re a child and you find yourself what you’re a parent and you find your child frequently chokes on things, you definitely should bring them in for a speech pathology assessment. Absolutely. I and after someone chokes, it should definitely be so it and you know, in a hospital setting, if someone chokes in hospital, first aid is administered. They are stabilized, and then they are actually put nil by mouth and allowed to eat or drink anything. And until until they have a speech pathologist review. So now that was my first job. You know, Sydney Hospital. I mean, sometimes it’s a bit terrifying, but, you know, it really it really you learn really quickly. Yeah. What you do and most of the population that I was working with were at all, all of them were adults, but most were older. So the next I was we’ve been talking about kids, but, you actually said something to me, you know, one of our brief chats ago about also about adults and the other population that I can see this undeniably supporting is, aging Australians. Especially when you can’t get somewhere quickly, you might not have a car, you might be living at home alone. What, what and and choking in crisis as you get older. Because what happens is your your mechanism is not. Asking you. At. Yeah. It’s just everything just doesn’t work quite as well anymore as you get older and the pots get a bit rusty and. You are at greater risk of choking. And depending on what type of person you are. And how you are and all that, can impact that. But I really find that something like this, you know, in, in your parents home.

Sarah Giltrow: Well, you can use it. You can use it on yourself. And that changes. Which is something to that. Another reason why I bought it as well is I kept thinking, well, it’s not like I’ve ever choked on anything, but, you know, when you’re watching kids and you’re, you know, you’re snacking because you’re not always able to sit down and have a meal yourself. You know, it’s I also have that same rule, like, you should be sitting down and eating with the kids and and all of that, but sometimes I’m I’m guilty of it. Where I will be in the room, you know, in the kitchen, in the kitchen. You’ve got. You know, you’re tidying up the kitchen or you’re chopping up a bit of dinner. I know I’m not. So I don’t get to eat when they eat. And so I will be eating an apple or I’ll be walking around all the, you know, oh, someone’s just gone and hurt themselves. And you’re, you know, are you rushing with a mouthful of food? And I’ve often thought to myself, well, although I’ve never choked, what would I do in that instance that doesn’t help if I’m alive? You know, it still doesn’t help if I’m alone with small children. So when I bought this, the other reason I bought it is I thought, well, I can do it to myself. Yeah. If ever there was an issue, and my husband wasn’t home or something. And sometimes I don’t see my husband all day, you know, being where we are. You know, I sometimes don’t see anyone. Although the other thing that I did see is that, some nursing home had or aged care facilities, I should say, had actually purchased these. Yeah. For use with their residents as well, which I was like, well, if nursing homes are purchasing them, then maybe they’re not half bad.

Heidi: I actually did a quick, search. Well, I got chat TV to, to search for me, on, like, government stances and, couldn’t find anything. Like, it’s not like the Victorian government is endorsing this or, you know, Queensland Health is endorsing this. That’s not happening. Not yet to say that, but there are, individual councils in Western Australia, so really remote in remote areas that have just brought this in, not because it’s been recommended, but because they have this. There’s actually a story behind that one.

Sarah Giltrow: There is a father who lost his little boy’s daughter, who he choked on a choked on a grape at a beach in Western Australia, I believe. And, they’ve got it called Dada’s Legacy.

Heidi: I actually found that I know that website. I do know lot like those two things were linked.

Sarah Giltrow: Yeah. So that’s that’s where it’s linked. So he’s actually been, pushing and advocating for these things to be brought into account. All council centers and certain areas of Western Australia. The last time I heard there was at least nine council areas that had brought it in. I might be wrong on that number, but, yeah, he’s. And not only that, there’s also some private childcare centers that have, taken it up as part of supports legacy runs. So as I was father and he, he’s very, very passionate about making sure that there’s a lot of people who sort of understand, know what this device is. He’s obviously, you know, coming from a from a perspective of I’ve seen how it works. He’s coming in from a perspective of he’s he’s dealing with a tragedy, you know, the loss of his child. But he wants change. So, that’s that’s why that those areas are actually bringing it in now, which is amazing. So.

Heidi: That is amazing. So if there’s mums listening, well, there’s health professionals listening to speeches mainly. Yeah. Mums and speeches. What’s the main message?

Sarah Giltrow: My main message for all of this would be obviously first aid is gold standard. Make sure that you’re up to date and if you’re a parent who is time poor and you’re really struggling and you can’t, you know, oh, no, I can’t sit down and do a whole day course on Thursday because it’s just too hard. There’s so many online resources. Make sure that, you know, if you’re if you’re concerned about choking, look up what you would do in a choking incident before it happens because obviously, if it’s happening in front of you, you don’t have time to Google it. You know, have those things in mind. Something else that I, I feel very strongly about is some people even have, you know, on their fridge or in their kitchen somewhere. They’ve got, just the quick and easy sets for CPR, for choking, first aid, things like that. If you’re someone who maybe thinks in an emergency, you’re not going to be able to remember it, have it on the fridge, have a reminder somewhere for you to have those things that you should do. You know, if you yourself can’t go along to do first aid, get your partner to if your partner’s willing, and, and, you know, they at least then have the practical side. You do the online stuff. I do feel so strongly that people need to do that. And I also, you know, I’m obviously not against devices. I think lifesaving devices have been proven to save lives. You know, you’ve got the defibrillator, there. That’s another life saving device which has been proven to save lives, and increase, survival rates. My daughter is living proof that this thing has worked, for us at least. Nothing is 100%, not even to this day. This doesn’t, you know, it’s just another chance, in my opinion. And it’s an inexpensive device. I actually have one in my car. It fits inside my handbag when we go to restaurants, so it’s discreet in that respect. I know it looks like it’s big, but it’s. It fits in my handbag.

Heidi: I mean, we put more things in a handbag. You just make me think of my mother, who used to have everything. She once had tomato sauce in her handbag. So it’s a it is a it is a well, as we said. Oh, we need some tomato sauce. She says, oh. All right. But then I digress. You can fit the LifeVac. So really to to summarize you’ve said first is gold standard. Be prepared like look into what you would do, what what things you need. What absolutely. Training you need. And then also maybe consider a device. Like consider it. I mean, I know not ever know. That they exist. Yeah. They exist. And that’s not everyone can afford it. Not everyone will see the value in it. And that’s absolutely fine. I’m not pushing for people to go out like buy one. But if you are someone who is concerned and maybe would like something extra just for your own peace of mind, they exist.

Sarah Giltrow: They exist. And I, my daughter, is living proof that you know they can work. I won’t say they will always work because nothing is 100%, but they can work. And you know, 4561 people worldwide have been saved by this device. When they say failed. So, that’s that’s from the statistics from the LifeVac website. Could be more who’s to know? But just personally, I, I do obviously want to endorse that as, as something that is another device on the market or another option on the market if things don’t go right. Yeah.

Heidi: Thank you so much. You’re actually so brave for sharing your story and for really advocating for something like this. I think it’s, really important to give people a platform when they’re advocating so strongly for something that could really I mean, first aid and knowing about these devices could really save a life, especially in a remote area. Thank you so much, Sarah.

Sarah Giltrow: Thanks for having you on.

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Heidi: I’m so grateful that Sarah was able to share her story with us here at Beyond Words. When it comes to any first aid advice, we always recommend reviewing the Health Direct website. We’ve linked everything we’ve mentioned in the show notes, but we’ve also gone one step further and asked our team of 70+ speech pathologists at Pop to share their best, most trusted first aid training & resources.
We’ve simplified it all into a mini guide, so head to the shownotes now for your link to download it. As always, if you or your child are facing challenges with choking, coughing during or immediately after mealtimes, swallowing or fussy eating, please seek an individualised speech pathology assessment or chat to your GP. Before we wrap up, I would also like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of land, seas and waters throughout Australia that we recorded this podcast on and pay respect to elders past, present and future. Take care and we’ll catch you.